Warning: SPOILERS for Captain America: Brave New WorldCaptain America: Brave New World is a big movie, and that offered Emmy-winning and Academy Award-nominated composer Laura Karpman the chance to write one of the Marvel Cinematic Universe’s most varied scores yet. Karpman wrote new thematic material for Anthony Mackie’s Captain America, who finally got his first feature film. At the same time, she wrote presidential themes that twisted into “monster music” for the scene-stealing emotional journey of Harrison Ford’s Thaddeus Ross. And all this was set against the tense, conspiratorial sounds of a political thriller.

It’s all deftly navigated by Karpman, whose music has become familiar to the MCU faithful through her work on Ms. Marvel, The Marvels, and What If…? Outside of the Marvel umbrella, Karpman’s versatility is on full display on projects like American Fiction (check out ScreenRant’s review) and HBO’s borderline cult classic series Lovecraft Country. Luckily, she keeps coming back to the world of supersoldiers, Gamma-radiated brawlers, and mutants for one simple reason: “I love writing superhero themes.”

ScreenRant interviewed Laura Karpman about her work on Captain America: Brave New World. Karpman explained how her work on Marvel’s What If…? made it easier to honor the musical legacy of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and why she wanted to write new musical material for Sam Wilson’s Captain America. Plus, Karpman detailed the unique musical challenges in writing music for Harrison Ford’s Thaddeus “Thunderbolt” Ross.

Laura Karpman Breaks Down The Brave New World Main тιтle

It’s About More Than Just Sam WIlson

Sam Wilson is one of the characters who have gone through the most in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but he’s not the only person on a hero’s journey in Captain America: Brave New World. While there is thematic material tied to Captain America in the тιтle, “I think about it as a hero’s theme for the film, not so much a new Cap theme,” Karpman said, “It’s really where we’re at with Sam, Joaquin, and Isaiah–it’s really a theme for all of them.” But, because there is much to cover with the movie, the theme has “two parts to it.”

The first part of the Captain America: Brave New World main тιтle is “almost like a Mission: Impossible sound, which is a nod to the [political] thriller aspect of the film,” said Karpman. As to the Captain America of it all: “It’s complicated and it’s got drive to it, but it’s also fairly evolved,” because, “Sam is taking the mantle … but [is] caught in a mess of things … he’s really finding his way into how to use this incredible strength and wit and prowess that he has in this particular place that he’s in.”

Red Hulk Nearly Stole Movie, And Gave Karpman The Most To Do

Karpman Scored The Character’s Transition From President To Monster

When told mid-question that Harrison Ford’s Thaddeus Ross nearly stole the movie, Karpman interjected with a “Yeah,” repeating the word when asked if Ross’ music gave her the most to work with. “There’s a cold edge … at the beginning [of] the Ross theme. It is Copland-esque, it’s piano-based, and it’s easily singable,” she said. Karpman continued: “There’s something icy about it, I would say, only because when we first see him, he’s a shell. He’s pining for his daughter … we don’t know what he’s doing, but we think he might be trying to find the goodness in himself.”

“Then, he has to become something else completely,” Karpman said. “It was kind of like, ‘Okay, can I take this simple theme and turn it into Hulk music?’” She touched on how that evolution happened: “There’s a little touch of it in the conspiracy music over the whole opening of the film, and then you hear it in that blue room when Ross and Sam first meet, but in this really mysterious way. It keeps going as Ross becomes more unhinged, until finally it bursts forth as the Godzilla monster thing that happens [at] the White House toward the end.”

“This Film Is Emotional. It’s A Smart Film”: Karpman On Scoring The Movie’s Emotionally Climactic Ending

Sam Wilson’s Third Act Fight-Ending Conversation With Red Hulk Was Not A Typical MCU Finale Moment

The ending battle of Captain America: Brave New World didn’t finish with a superpowered brawl at an airport, a melee between two former friends, or a fistfight on a falling airship (which is somehow the ending of both Captain America: The First Avenger and Captain America: The Winter Soldier). Instead, it ended with Sam Wilson telling Red Hulk that Hulk could obliterate him, but shouldn’t. “That’s the thing–this film is emotional. It’s a smart film. People are moving chess pieces in this film, and that, to me, was fascinating to score and to work on,” Karpman said.

As for how Karpman made that specific musical moment happen, it was “the convergence of the two themes–the Sam theme and the Brave New World theme.” She continued, “Sam is a complicated character, and he uses his brain and he uses his heart in a way that is really remarkable. That’s actually one of my favorite cues, at the end of that sequence, where it’s really the Ross theme in its most beautiful as you’re panning out over the scene with the chery blossoms and this destroyed atmosphere, but [with] hopes for the future.”

No Other Captain America Composers Were Consulted In The Making Of This Film…

It Wasn’t Because Karpman Wasn’t Interested In Their Music

Captain America: Brave New World is both the beginning of a new franchise in Anthony Mackie’s take on the mantle and a continuation of the Captain America story that first hit screens in 2011. This means that plenty of other composers have written music for the character in the past. “I didn’t speak to any of them, but I know the music well, of course,” said Karpman about taking on this role.

As the composer of What If…? “I work with all the melodies from all the composers in the MCU, because the idea there is to take what happens in the film and do something with it that’s either totally representative or doing things like turning the Captain America theme upside down for Captain Carter.” Through that work, Karpman is not only familiar with the work of her predecessors, but experienced in manipulating it to create a new effect. But, she said, “This is its own film. This is its own vibe. This film has its own themes that are unique.”

…But There Is A Secret Musical Nod To Captain America: The First Avenger

This One Is For The Music Nerds

Although it’s admittedly subtle, there is even a musical motif in Captain America: Brave New World that ties back to Alan Silvestri’s music for 2011’s Captain America: The First Avenger. “It’s got a tiny little reference to the Silvestri,” Karpman said, singing the iconic opening motif of Silvestri’s “Captain America Main тιтles”, “in musical terms, it’s two fourths stacked on top of each other.” Although the usage is different, Karpman demonstrated her own version as well, showing the similarity.

Karpman Hopes The Sound Of The Marvel Cinematic Universe Is Here To Stay

Even As More Experimental Composers Join The MCU’s Ranks

Laura Karpman’s MCU music generally strikes an interesting balance between offering up classic superhero themes and introducing new musical elements ranging from thrillingly complicated to refreshingly weird. With an approach like that, artists like her and recently announced Thunderbolts* composers Son Lux (who turned in a blissfully esoteric score for Everything Everywhere All at Once) could theoretically reshape what it means to “sound like the MCU”. But when asked if it was time to reinvent what superhero music sounded like, Karpman responded with a flat “No.”

“No,” Karpman continued, “because I think one of the things that’s really cool is that there are certain things that you have to do, and I love that about these movies. I think that there’s all kinds of room in the cracks in Marvel movies to do all kinds of wacky things, and that’s one of the reasons why I love doing it.” The composer ended on this: “Also, I love writing superhero themes. I want to do that. I love the dignity of those heroic themes, and I want to keep writing those.”

Also check out our interview with Captain America: Brave New World’s Carl Lumbly.