Pixar chief creative officer Pete Docter sat down with a licensed therapist to discuss the singular arc of Buzz Lightyear in the original Toy Story, in which Buzz initially believes the fictional narrative of his name, but has an existential crisis in realizing that he is a mere toy.

Toy Story turns 30 years old this year, as it first premiered as Pixar’s flagship project in 1995, going on to entirely change how animated movies are made. It is also a critical moment in the Toy Story franchise as we are less than a year out from Toy Story 5‘s release date, and are waiting to see if the franchise can maintain its streak of good movies.

Toy Story has always starred Tom Hanks as Woody the cowboy doll and Tim Allen as Buzz Lightyear, with many other A-listers returning again and again, as well as coming on board in the sequels. Three decades later, one of Woody and Buzz’s creators reflects on the initial storyline between them of Woody’s jealousy and Buzz’s coming to terms with reality.

Pete Docter joined filmmaker Alan Seawright and therapist Jonathan Decker on an episode of Cinema Therapy, where they looked back on Toy Story. Docter expressed his disbelief that so many kids “very much identify with Buzz,” while rewatching the scene where Buzz discovers the commercial for himself as a toy. Decker joked: “They identify with the middle-aged toy going through an existential crisis.“

However, Decker then explains how devastating this discovery would be for Buzz because of his own sense of self-worth, and how this connects to Woody’s arc. Decker said the following:

I look at this, and from a psychological standpoint, there’s this notion that your worth is tied to what you value. Your worth is tied to a role, or what your dreams are, and you have this, it all comes crashing down. Who he [Buzz] thinks he is and what he ties his worth to is ripped away from him. And we see him laying there just broken and desтιтute. And to me, the message of Toy Story is, who you are is already enough and that your worth isn’t tied to a specific role or a specific value.

This is then seen in Woody because he is so threatened by Buzz becoming Andy’s new favorite toy, when being the favorite is what gave Woody status among the other toys. “And for Woody, if I’m not the leader of the group, then who am I?” says Decker. He and Docter go on to talk about the lessons that are learned in Pixar’s best movies; check out their comments below:

Jonathan Decker: […] this is true with characters and this is true with life. There is what you want and what you actually need. And the best Pixar stories are generally about taking away from a character what they want and arriving at what they need. And what Buzz truly needs is to just fully accept and love himself as he is and the role that his friendship with Woody plays in that self-acceptance.

Pete Docter: Yeah, I think the thing that happens in real life, nobody changes because they want to. They change because they’re forced to, in some way. And so we, obviously, in this scene, we wanted to show the aftermath of that, that Buzz, his whole world is crumbled by watching that commercial. Ironically, he gets reality from television.

Jonathan Decker: That is the psychological reality of the scene, between who you thought you were and then stepping into who you actually are and creating that reality, there’s usually a messy, broken stage.

Buzz then arrives at a new sense of idenтιтy, because, as Decker says, he is still a “hero,” just by being Woody and Andy’s friend, rather than a space ranger. Check out the full episode of Cinema Therapy below:

What This Analysis Of Buzz Means For Toy Story

Most Pixar movies express some very mature themes, wrapped up in a premise and medium that will work for children. As is also said in the Cinema Therapy episode, they are family movies, not necessarily children’s movies. Toy Story, more broadly, is about friendship, childhood, and growing up and letting go, which might overshadow the one-off arc of the first outing.

But hearing this analysis can be very satisfying as it helps to make sense of why this story has stuck with viewers for so long. It also frames Toy Story as even more elegant than we realized, as Buzz and Woody so neatly mirror each other. Despite the fantasy elements of it all, some of Buzz’s struggles are very relatable.

Our Take On Cinema Therapy’s Analysis Of Buzz Lightyear

This proves that there are always more layers to unpack with our favorite movies, as the analysis makes Buzz and Woody even more in-depth and relatable characters. In addition to the psychological analysis, the trio talked about the filmmaking and history of cinema-related aspects of Toy Story.

For instance, Seawright recalled seeing the scene of the duo “flying” for the first time, when the “theater went crazy. People were clapping, yelling, screaming.” Though a formal psychological deep-dive may not be everyone’s first reaction to seeing Toy Story, the emotional triumph of this moment is beautiful, thanks to the technical advancements and perfect arcs leading up to it.