The new documentary Wick is Pain charts the journey of one of the biggest action franchises that very nearly didn’t happen. The first John Wick film released in 2014 and instantly won over critics and audiences alike, but its voyage to the screen was fraught with troubles of just about every kind. Wick is Pain not only uncovers the biggest challenges that the filmmakers faced when bringing that first film to audiences, but also explores their never-ending quest to one-up their past work with each new franchise entry.

The Wick is Pain key art highlights Keanu Reeves’ physical commitment to the role, but just as dedicated to the franchise are director Chad Stahelski and producer Josh Oreck. The trio of Reeves, Stahelski, and Oreck first met in 1997, and began a working relationship that would only grow through work on franchises like The Matrix and, of course, John Wick. Stahelski and Oreck feature heavily in Wick is Pain as, through interviews, they reveal secrets of their decade-plus-long John Wick franchise journey.

ScreenRant’s Joe Deckelmeier spoke with John Wick franchise director Chad Stahelski and producer Josh Oreck about the work that inspired Wick is Pain. The pair discussed the reason behind the documentary, how the movie ScreenRant’s John Wick: Chapter 4 review called a “franchise best” saw Stahelski fighting for creative control, and more. Wick is Pain is out now on digital platforms.

Chad Stahelski Reveals Why John Wick Almost Didn’t Happen

“Not A Lot Of People Thought We Were [Making] The Right Choices”

Over a decade after the release of John Wick, it’s difficult to imagine that the movie very nearly wasn’t made. Wick is Pain has the video proof, but Chad Stahelski shared some of the reasons behind the reveal. “It took a year [between] when we were hired and when it actually came to fruition,” Stahelski said. “In that time, it probably went up and down and fell down, I don’t know, a dozen times,” he added, continuing, “The script wasn’t there. You didn’t have cast. You didn’t have the money locked … we didn’t quite have our s*** together yet.”

But, in Stahelski’s words, “It’s a simple relationship of want and will,” meaning, “if you want something bad enough, you do everything you can to will it into existence.” Stahelski revealed he was turned down by “literally everybody” who may have financed the film as an example, but said the experience “brought out the best in the cast, crew, and producers.”

Interestingly, Stahelski shared that the moment most doubted in John Wick–even by its own crew–was the one that told him the movie was going to work. “We were doing a lot of different things,” the director shared, elaborating, “the poor puppy had to die, and the wife … and the storytelling structure and the way we sH๏τ the action and violence was very different than what was going on at the time. So, not a lot of people thought we were [making] the right choices at the time, especially with the puppy.”

“That was a big moment,” Stahelski said. “That was three weeks into shooting and you’ve got Keanu with not-a-very-convincing stuffed puppy crying his eyes out on the floor, barefoot and in pajamas, and I think three quarters of the room thought they had made the biggest mistake of all their careers. And I think there were about four of us that went, ‘Oh, this is going to be good.’”

Josh Oreck Explains The Idea Behind Wick Is Pain

“There’s A Lot Of This Story We’re Not Telling”

Wick is Pain seems to be coming at a perfect time for reflection. John Wick: Chapter 4 had a very ambiguous ending and is poised to close a major chapter for the franchise, while other projects like From the World of John Wick: Ballerina promise to expand the franchise with new characters and corners of its unique world. BTS footage of the Wick films has long been available thanks to featurettes and promo material, but in producer Josh Oreck’s words, “everything that we did was to talk about the good things–all the victories they had.”

That wealth of footage was generally made to go along with home and digital releases of the movie, which Oreck said “had a great life in home entertainment.”

“I always say it’s the number one airplane movie of all time, because it is.”

“It’s not to say that Wick is Pain is about bad things,” Oreck shared, “it’s just about [the] struggle. You don’t need to tell that story to sell the movie.” To help finally tell that story, Oreck and co. leaned on “Matty Sidel, who was there on set every day for all four films, getting both sides of the story.” The producer added that as more Wick movies were written and made, he would tell Chad Stahelski, “There’s a lot of this story we’re not telling here.”

But each time Oreck would do that, “[Chad] would say ‘Let’s wait until the moment is right.’” Finally, “It felt like, as the 10th anniversary of the first film approached … and as the franchise is branching off into all these different universes, it feels like a good time to tell [John Wick’s] own non-fictional origin story.”

John Wick Is Still A Battle, Even Behind The Scenes

“I Have Never Fought Harder … Than I Did On John Wick 4”

You might think Wick is Pain is the story of the John Wick franchise becoming a juggernaut moneymaker, catapulting its filmmakers into a realm of success that transcends studio notes. That’s not what happened: “You know how many battles I fought on John Wick 4?” Stahelski said, continuing, “This is after three very successful films. You’d think you proved it–not the case. I have never fought harder or longer on a film than I [did] on John Wick 4.”

Stahelski fought for just about everything, including “the runtime, the story structure… no one got the ending. They hated this, they didn’t the character, [they asked,] ‘Why are we not doing this?’ They were trying to categorize John Wick into an algorithm to predict success on the next one, rather than just trusting the way we do it.”

The director shared how important sticking to his guns (both literally and figuratively) was, saying, “People get divorced, people give up their families, we travel around the world, you’re working 18-hour days, you’re yelling, you’re screaming, you’re taking hits. My stunt guys are beating themselves up … and then you have someone like Keanu Reeves that relentlessly and undeniably has fought for us … so there’s always that moment where you go, ‘Am I going to let somebody down?’”

“It brings a tear to your eye knowing how much people backed you on such a strange project,” Stahelski shared, adding, “’Did you live up to that?’”

Josh Oreck Reflects On Over 25 Years Of Collaboration With Keanu Reeves & Chad Stahelski

“They Just Put In The Work”

Josh Oreck first met Keanu Reeves and Chad Stahelski in 1997, which plays into his work on the John Wick franchise in a big way. “My perspective on the franchise is really connected to my perspective on watching these people grow up,” Oreck shared, continuing, “I mean, Keanu was already a grown man when I started working with him and was already a movie star. But I think he’s had two full acts of his amazing career that we’ve been lucky enough to bear witness to with The Matrix and with this franchise and everything else in between.”

“To me, it’s just a journey through this incredible business that we’re all chronicling,” Oreck said about Wick is Pain, adding, “It’s so much more than the creation of this franchise. I’m like, ‘This is something that people should see,’ because it’s inspirational with regards to not just movies but just the way that we all aspire to be creative enтιтies.”

Chad Stahelski Reveals The Deep Intention Behind John Wick’s Style

Jason Statham Almost Had His Own “Gun-Fu” Movie

John Wick as a franchise is known for its signature action style, so it’s no surprise that an immense amount of thought went into crafting the look and feel of the movie’s fight sequences, which lean heavily on a style of movie fighting known as “gun-fu”. On matching John Wick’s looks, wardrobe, and fighting style, Stahelski said not pairing those elements can be “one of the biggest misses” in action filmmaking, calling out films where the creators “left it up to a stunt team or a choreographer to come up with a style, instead of doing their character homework.”

For Reeves’ character, Stahelski shared, “Because of [John Wick’s] background, we gave him a Russian military Sambo background with Judo and Jiujitsu, mostly because we didn’t have time to shoot punches and kicks and reverses.” Plus, Stahelski said, “We wanted to stand out from the Taken, Bourne style of shooting. I think they’re great films–we just wanted to do something different to stand out.”

This, paired with the fact that the filmmakers “wanted to тιԍнтen up the way they did gunfights, so we could see all the cause and effects,” led to their version of gun-fu. While this style of fighting became prominent with the rise of John Wick, it almost appeared a few years earlier in the 2012 Jason Statham-led film Safe. Unfortunately for that movie, Stahelski said, “The technology of being very safe with blanks and guns and all that … wasn’t quite there yet.”

On top of that, “It didn’t quite fit with what the director was trying to do [with] the character and stuff,” Stahelski said, adding, “It wasn’t like anybody said, ‘No we hate it.’ It [just] didn’t quite fit with the storytelling, because it was more a guy down on his luck that had been hidden. It had to be a little more ballistic and bombastic, and it was a little bit more of a cat and mouse, and we didn’t want to force the style.”

“Some things just don’t fit,” Stahelski said, “And so we knew we wanted to do this style very early on, way before we even got the gig, really. And we built the character both around Keanu personally himself, what he is as a performer and an actor, and what we thought we wanted as an artistic style.”